If you decide on a horror movie, I can recommend Exorcist Believer. I mean, it's got propaganda - not just Catholic but overall Christian propaganda, but it's better than The Pope's Exorcist (wow is it better, but that's because The Pope's Exorcist clearly had such low standards, and it was pretty much wholly Catholic propaganda in the realm of "Oh sure...the Inquisition and witch hunts and Crusades happened, but it wasn't REALLY the Catholic church's fault. It was the demons!" and that was pretty horrible). It has stellar acting in it, and there's a moment at the very very end that, for me, at least, as a fan of the OG movie, made downloading and sitting through the whole thing totally worth it. It's got some standard "possession" tropes and make-up and effects, but it doesn't go as hard or as CGI-cheesy as so many of the possession movies these days do.

I hope you can see Exorcist: Believer soon. I mean, possession movies (with the exception of the Jewish dybbuk possession movies they've started to drop periodically, and that one movie from 2020 "The Old Ways" that implies potentially not only Christian-based demons) generally bank on Christian mythos, particularly *mostly* Catholic views in demonology, so there's going to always be propaganda. But it's got some good stuff to it. I will say this that made me laugh, and it's not a spoiler. The single dad in the movie also played a crossroads demon once in SPN, and I was like, "Your daughter's possessed, huh? Well, that's what you get for being a crossroads demon in SPN who reneged on his deals with people."

The Pope's Exorcist is maybe worth one watch through (I watched it twice - once as the download and then on Netflix so that I could see what all the Italian was that was spoken), but mostly by the end, you'd be like, "Well, this is bullshit." I HATED "The Catholic Church has never done anything bad ever at all because those were times when priests were possessed by DEMONS, so it wasn't our fault!" bullshit.

OG Exorcist still scares the shit out of me, and I've seen it tons of times. Same with Exorcist 3. Exorcism of Emily Rose also scares me. I don't really consider the Conjuring movies to be entirely possession movies, even though they've got elements of it, and those are pretty scary. Deliver Us from Evil scared me. The Taking of Deborah Logan scared the crap out of me the one time I watched it, but it mostly deals with dementia being the open gate to demonic possession, and I watched that while my aunt was still alive, so that made being around my aunt extra fun. LOL The Rite is a good one. But so many possession movies are like, "Oh look! We have CGI so we can make the girl crawl all over the walls and ceiling and say bad filthy swears to make Mommy cryyyyyyyy."

Exorcist 2 was...dumb. It had some interesting concepts to it, but overall, it was kind of dumb and was trying to explain away *why* Regan specifically was chosen. Exorcist 3 was actually written by Blatty and the movie (mostly) followed the book. It also introduces the idea that those with dementia and who are catatonic are easy prey for demons to possess because there's no fight. It goes back to Kinderman (the movie-loving cop) and the priest who was Damian's friend as well as a friend of Chris McNeil in the first movie (the one who's at her party and recommends Damian?) - totally different actors, but it's really good. The two prequels that both had Stellan Skarsgard aren't great, though one of them is better than the other, and I can never remember which one it is. LOL

Deliver Us from Evil is actually on Netflix right now, I think (or one of the streaming channels), and it's also based on a true story of a NY cop who wound up working with a priest for exorcisms. The guy wrote a book and everything.

The Last Exorcism was pretty good and fucked up, and then the end was a little cheesy, I think. I watched the sequel, and it didn't *suck-suck*, but it wasn't great. Really? The Nun 2 was better than the first. Huh. That doesn't happen often (The Nun was only okay for me - I liked her creep factor in Conjuring 2 the most, like with the creep factor of the Annabelle doll was better in the Conjuring rather than her own movie).

It might be worth it to watch Exorcist 2 again just to remind yourself what happened in it, but 3 is really good. There are little things in it that are just sooooooooooo creepy-scary, and if you blink you miss them, but they're just so good.

Deliver Us from Evil has some typical tropes, but the fun thing is that it doesn't go anywhere near teenage girls. There IS also a movie about people getting trapped in an elevator and being killed and the movie is called Devil. Not sure if you've seen that one, but it's pretty creepy.

Yeah, that whole last minute "it's a cult" thing was really weird and needed more time considering that that whole family that was in the cult didn't really try and get rid of the faux exorcist that was filming the whole thing.

I don't remember much of The Nun other than I wasn't as satisfied with it as I'd hoped to be (because the nun was creepy af in The Conjuring 2). I'll have to watch out for 2 so that I can download and check it out.

Exactly. The Raggedy Ann Annabelle doll would've been far creepier. Yes, old dolls are creepy, but that movie Annabelle was made ridiculously creepy to the point of not really being that creepy.

I do rewatch Conjuring 1 and 2 more than I do 3, and I know they're planning on a 4th, I think, to end the franchise or something. I don't know. I like the Warrens in the movies (despite being syrupy-Christian), but reading about the real Warrens is kind of upsetting with how many people point them out as frauds - but then you have people who dealt with them and didn't find them to be frauds. It's really hard to gauge a lot of that. I know that there's a limited series called The Enfield Haunting. If you haven't seen it, I recommend it. It's all British (Timothy Spall and Matthew McFayden) - and that's the haunting that Conjuring 2 is based on. Apparently, the Warrens did try to get involved with that but made things worse, so obviously Conjuring 2 should be watched with a grain of salt in that oh they solved it all on their own yada yada yada. But I like 3 okay enough, but so many things felt. *Forced*.

Leave it to me to not realize that Ouija 2 was Mike Flanagan (even though it's got two of his favorite people in it to use in all his projects). LOL I liked that one. I liked the original one, too, but the second was a good sequel, which doesn't always happen.

I think you said you'd seen The Black Phone, which was terrifying and really good, and they're planning a sequel. I don't know how they'll do a sequel, but they're planning for one. I also really like the two Sinister movies. Those *always* scare the fuck out of me, esp the first one - they're so *elegantly* terrifying, too. They have effects in there that just blow me away and scare the shit out of me at the same time. It's like...if horror were poetry. And I've now got all the Insidious movies - the very last one they did was gorgeous and a lovely ending for that one with that family. Ty Simpkins was so great in it.

Yeah, if you go in with low expectations for Exorcist 2, you might enjoy it a little. LOL There were some interesting effects in it, as I remember, and the actors are all good. I just felt that the need to explain why Regan specifically was chosen felt a little too "chosen one" feeling or something like that. Like. Generally the point of possession isn't that the demons have a grudge - it's that it could happen to literally anyone, and that's supposed to be what makes it scary. (Kind of like the explanation in Poltergeist 2 as to why Carol Ann specifically was chosen, despite the already explanation of her being young and still close to that veil between life and death/afterlife that had been a good one. Though to be fair, P2 was scary just because that old man was fucking scary.) But Exorcist 3 really is good. It's very spiritually philosophical because Detective Kinderman is Jewish, but his two best friends are/were two Catholic priests, and being Jewish and a cop, he's constantly plagued with the idea of evil and "God" and why "God" allows so much evil in the world. It's really interesting. Not to mention that there's some really hilarious banter between Kinderman and Father Kevin Dyer (the priest who'd been Damian's and Chris McNeil's friend in OG Exorcist), and there's this wild dream sequence that you need to pay close attention to because it's got a few well-known faces in there - including Sam Jackson, but you have to pay attention because it goes by kind of fast, not to mention that in a way, the dream sort of gives some interesting perspective on the things that are being dealt with.

Yeah, I think Devil was by him, and it was really good. Weird and a little disjointed the first watch through, but with re-watches, more things make sense.

I don't know what to really think about the Warrens. I don't know that they were entirely without talent for handling the hauntings, but I think that they had such a heavy-handed Catholic view (without enough respect for the Catholic church to follow their rules before they leapt in to handle the hauntings themselves) that it opened the door to them being less than ethical. It's one of those things that since I didn't know them personally or have any dealings with them, I don't want to say for sure that they were just con artists, but yeah, I could probably agree that they didn't handle things well and probably put those families in danger because they didn't conduct the matter of the hauntings in a safe or ethical way. I believe in ghosts and hauntings and the like (I probably believe a little in possession but not as a demonic/Catholic thing - but I also think that when you're dealing with the non-Christian side of things - think of the pagan notion of "being ridden" by the gods - how violent or dangerous is a possession when you have actually welcomed the gods in? But also how scary would that be to some poor Catholic priest who sees a happy pagan who's being 'horse' for Odin. The Catholics would definitely lose their shit over that - so maybe that's part of where their "experience" with exorcism comes from - and they turned a simple pagan cultural occurrence, which is also very popular in cultures that the Catholics force-converted like the African tribal cultures, into demonic possession), but because I legitimately believe in that stuff, I also legitimately believe that there are people out there ready to exploit other people who believe in it. I just don't know exactly how far over the line the Warrens went to do that because of course, there are going to be accounts that they did, accounts that they didn't, or accounts that they sort of did. The whole cursed objects "museum" makes me curious, and of course, there's that huge part of me that's like...okay now that they're both dead, what's happening to all those cursed objects? Sure, their daughter and SIL have essentially taken over the care and keeping of it, but what you see in the Conjuring movies, where it looks neat and semi-organized, is absolute bullshit when you see actual footage or photos of it and how disorganized it looked.

See The Enfield Haunting if you can find it. I have it downloaded, and I'm not sure if it's on streaming anywhere now. It's slow. The haunting patterns aren't flashy like Hollywood stuff - like in Conjuring 2, but it's really good, I think.

I'll have to look for that documentary. It sounds like it could be interesting. I recently watched a documentary that had one of the Lutzs' sons in it - the oldest son who was the most angry at George Lutz.

Part of why I like the first Ouija movie is the main actress. LOL I thought she was a cutie in Bates Motel, so when I saw her in that, I had to watch it. But as someone who's worked with Ouija boards, there was definitely some bullshit in it. Yes, using a Ouija can be dangerous or harmful but not in the way movies have really captured. LOL But then again, Witchboard was a new movie when I was in junior high, and right after that movie came out, the sales of Ouija boards went through the roof. My childhood BFF got one for Christmas or a birthday, and another friend got one for her birthday, and it was interesting working it with the two different friends because the second one was more in belief, and my BFF was totally skeptical (until we were working it the night before my dad died, and that kind of freaked her out but it didn't freak me out LOL).

I saw Scott Derrickson's movie list, and he's really good. He was originally supposed to do Doctor Strange 2, I think, but then something happened where it went to Sam Raimi, which was good, but I have certain anti-Wanda opinions about it and about a few other things that tend to make my opinions not very popular. LOL The Black Phone is REALLY good and so *different*. The fact that the bad guy in it and the actor who played his brother were both in the first Sinister movie is a lot of fun. Sinister absolutely scared the fuck out of me and still does - my *favorite* scary af scene is when Hawke's moving through the hallway and the ghost children are following him and of course, he doesn't see them but we do. That's what I meant by elegant and poetry. That fucking scene wrecked me so hard but also elevated me and awed me. I love that there's no way to actually defeat the...entity, whatever he is. No real way to defeat him - no easy way to defeat him. If you fall into his radar, you're pretty much just fucked. I can't watch either of those movies if I'm in any way shape or form a bad mood or an off mood (like with Event Horizon) because the movie will leave me unsettled and almost in a self-dangerous mind-space for the rest of the night and maybe the next day. Exorcism of Emily Rose can do that to me sometimes but not as much as it used to. Still creeps me out, and I couldn't tell you *why* but it succeeds in fucking with me.

I really like Insidious 1, 2, and the very last one with grown-up Ty Simpkins the best, but even the prequel one was interesting. I think there was only one that I was a little meh about, but it wasn't so horrible that I didn't go ahead and download it to have them all in order.

Also random, but if you haven't seen this movie yet, I recommend it. I think I saw it on Netflix or it could've been Tubi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haunter_(film)

Oh gods, that's the truth. Totally not "horror" movies, but I've got to say that when the ex and our ex-bff and another friend went into watching Hearts and Armor without high expectations, and that was a good thing because it's so bad and so cheesy but also so much fun when you go into it thinking, "I'm gonna make so much fun of this movie." However, when another friend years and years later made us watch Dark Star, and I was not prepared for how incredibly BAD this movie was, and I felt so much rage at being made to watch a movie with aliens that looked like beach balls with chicken feet.



So yes, go into some things with low expectations and you might just be rewarded with some enjoyment of it. LOL But Exorcist 3 really is good.

Devil isn't one I rewatch a lot, but periodically I think, "Yeah, it's been a while," and if it's on streaming, I'll toss it on. It's not my favorite of M. Night Shyamalan, but it's definitely not my least favorite of his either.

I think that's what I have the biggest issue with the Warrens about - the proof of evil = the proof of the Christian god. I mean, no one needs proof that their god/s exist in order to believe in them or feel comforted by them. Their need to prove that by way of demonic possession is really *really* unethical and gross. If they'd just stuck to really helping people with hauntings, that would've been fine.

I think the girl from Bates Motel is the reason I watched the first Ouija movie because I'd become so disappointed in any type of Ouija movie that I wasn't sold on it until I saw she was in it. Okay...I'll watch that for her, and then I enjoyed it more than I thought I would.

And also Ouija/talking boards are so easy to use and not get in a fucking horror situation if one takes the proper respect with them. Don't be fucking stupid about it, and boom, no haunting or whatever. I was 13-15 when I was using the family one (and friends'), and I never had an incident in my life.

The Doctor Strange movies are good. The second one is really good, but I have a huge dislike for Wanda, so I think all the "oh poor Wanda uwu" bullshit was just annoying af. LOL

The Black Phone was definitely something very close to original - I don't want to say it was 100% original because then someone might throw out a story from way back that has a similar premise - because stories are told and retold and retold over and over. But it was definitely different and really good. I rewatched it here recently and was just still blown away with how freaky it was and how good and not a single cheesy, facepalm moment. I don't think I've watched The Orphanage, but I might have to now. I loved that part in the first Sinister. I mean, shit in the first one, the only one who lives is the deputy who goes on to try and save others from the same stuff in Sinister 2. Like there's no big save the family at the end of that one, and then the second one, the one twin isn't saved because he was full-blown evil like their dad. It's just a great concept - also pretty different from other horror movies, and the music/sound effects they went with really amped up the terror factor.

Yeah, Event Horizon, the Sinister movies, and this other weird-ass movie I used to have on DVD Mood Swingers (aka Dead Babies) - those are all ones that if I'm in an off mood, I canNOT watch them or else that off mood turns into something really ick and anxious and emotional and bordering on self-destructive thoughts. I can't even tell you what it is about those particular movies or their storytelling style or whatever that makes me feel that way when other movies don't (or like when watching Hannibal will help me when I'm depressed or anxious).

I think Exorcism of Emily Rose is on at least one of the streaming channels and probably a couple of them. After you've had a chance to rewatch that one, we can discuss it further. :)

Oh shit. I just looked up the Insidious movies to get a total feel for some of those middle films, and I stumbled onto some interesting this. Here's the wiki: Insidious film series, but here's what really made me go WHAT???

"Potential crossover with Sinister

In January 2018 during a press interview for The Last Key, Jason Blum stated that a crossover film between Insidious and Sinister had previously been in development. He also said that he personally believed it had potential for re-entering development in the future, stating that "we're going to cross our worlds at some point... We're going to try". !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fuck.

I recommend Hearts and Armor if you can track it down because it's so terrible that it's fucking hilarious. We used to rewatch it and just make so much fun of it.

And yes, that is a beach ball with chicken feet. Not quite chicken feet I guess, but definitely some type of avian feet, and that's what the aliens looked like in this movie. Had my friend said, "Okay this is a terrible movie, so don't take it seriously, and it's full of silliness," I would've probably loved Dark Star more than I did. But being unprepared made me want to throw shit, like I always do after reading The Story of O.

It's definitely a lot of Christians who do that. They'll ask pagans how we can believe in more than one god when the evidence is that there's only one, and it's like...there's no evidence either way, fucknugget. It's all about trust and faith and feeling, and it's personal, and other than sharing with people of similar views who choose to, it's also private. That's one of the reasons why pastors/priests aren't *really* supposed to give marital advice, couple's counseling, any type of counseling unless they've got the appropriate medical/psychological degrees to back it up. They can offer spiritual advice but that's where it's supposed to stop unless they've got those counseling degrees/licenses. It doesn't mean they won't still try and take advantage of people they're supposed to be helping by pushing some religious agenda, but it does mean they can lose their whole career if they do.

I think all horror will have similar/same tropes, but it's how the storytelling utilizes them, pushes them, introduces and solves them, and even how they're subverted that makes the difference between something new and exciting and something that's been done to death. I think I found The Orphanage on one of the streaming channels, but it didn't seem to be the one you were referring to - but maybe it is. I couldn't tell - or it was mislabeled. I'll do more research, and if nothing else, I'll download it if there's a torrent available. That is something about Sinister that makes it interesting. There's no real way to get out of it. I mean, in the second one, the former deputy, the mom, and the other kid managed to untangle themselves from it and get away, but the dad and the actual evil twin died, but even then, if I remember correctly, the films still showed up in another house. So the demon or whatever he is really can't be defeated or killed.

Yay for watching it and liking it! I bet the first time(s) you tried to watch it, it might have felt like it was moving really slow because of the court scenes. There were moments like that for me at first, but the more I watched it, the more I enjoyed those scenes. I know that I enjoyed how compelling it was and it wasn't just a Catholic thing - I mean, Laura Linney's character isn't religious as I remember it, but she still experiences *something* and she's not expected to fall into the Catholic thought, and she makes allowances for that in her legal defense. I know it's supposed to be based off a true story, too, but it's been harder to track down real info on it.

I hadn't even heard that they were proposing to make a Sinister + Insidious crossover. That would be really weird and I'm not sure how they'd come up with that, but it could be interesting (or it could be horrible) - hopefully the writers/directors will make it good.

Oh yeah, if you're prepared for bad movies going in, it's easier to laugh at them than get mad because they're so bad and stupid. LOL

Same with og Trek - the effects and costuming were definitely, well, something. But I hadn't seen anything in a long time so cheesy as the beachball with bird feet. I think that might've been the moment when I glared at my friend and said, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?????

I've read Story of O exactly two times. Once when former friends lent to me, and I hated it because BDSM. And then later, after I'd read some actual good things that featured BDSM in a more positive, healthy light, I tried reading SoO again, and I still hated it. Both times I wanted to throw it across the room, and I only did it the second time because it was my own copy of it. It's a fantasy for people who like to feel that level of control taken from them, but even knowing it's just a fantasy, it gives me massive panic attack feels. I don't recommend it. It would tap-dance your squick into a full-blown trigger.

EXACTLY ALL OF THAT. I have Christian friends who, if I ever got to visit them and they asked if I *wanted* to go to church with them (because they wouldn't expect it), I would probably go because they wouldn't be forcing it; they'd include me if I wanted to be included, and well, I don't think one of them actually goes to church, but the other ones in NYC who are Episcopal go to a hugely inclusive church - I mean, they're two guys who are married to each other, and the church does a charity walk during Pride that raises money for LGBTQIA charities, and it's a pretty church there in Hell's Kitchen, so I'd probably go. At the same time, if I was attending something that was pagan oriented, I'd invite them, and I think they'd choose to go to experience it. But that's so rare for me - most Christians seem to want to push their beliefs on people over and over until they've weakened the other person so that they can get their gold star stickers in heaven when they die.

I will say that there are fears explored that I probably can't ever watch - there's a movie with Shawn Ashmore, ironically called Frozen (he played Bobby Drake in the X-Men movies) where his character, a girl, and another guy go skiing, and they decide to do this last slope of the day, and they get stuck on the ski lift with no one around for days to get them down. I started to watch it, and I had to stop mid-way through because it was giving me heights panic attacks. But yeah, totally. Exploring fears and scary things, but when all there is are jump scares, that's not super great after a while. Like...oh another jump scare. Yikes, my heart is beating faster now. And? (I'm also finally watching The Midnight Club, and I thought it was funny how Flanagan was razzing on jump scares by overdoing them in that one scene with the first girl's story.)

That was the one it said it was, but the movie actually playing didn't seem to fit what the description was, so I'm thinking the streaming channel was borked on that one. It's happened before. I'll keep digging for it.

No I've done that before! I watched this one horror movie Demonic, and it was pretty good and creepy. Years later, I'm flipping through Netflix or whatever and see that movie, but it doesn't sound familiar and I don't recognize the title. Halfway through watching it, I realize, "I've seen this one before!" It's weird how that sometimes happens. I thought exploring the exorcism/death through the trial was an interesting method of storytelling for that one. And that is the case - the German epileptic girl. I remember looking that up and sadly not finding a lot of information but just enough to get the gist of the real story.

I'll be interested to see how they mesh Sinister and Insidious, though I would hope that they could get some of the same actors for continuity. I'm still not sure how well they'd cross over - like you said, one is about astral projection into the Further (realm of the dead) and one is about the supernatural crossing over into reality by using - well, that might be it. The entity in Sinister using human bodies (mostly children) to enact the...what? Sacrifices that he/it can't otherwise obtain because he is a supernatural entity? And in the astral projection into the Further, the entities/dead/whatever can enter the human bodies to come out of the Further. Maybe through astral projection, the Sinister entity figures out how to enter the human directly where he/it can walk among humans. Hmm.

Also watching The Devil on Trial right now on Netflix. Check it out - it's about the Devil Made Me Do It trial (and what lead up to it), and it's got reenactments, but it's also got videos of the OG family and the Warrens.

Ah! That makes sense. It was interesting - esp with the actual footage and talking to the actual people, and yes, they were very split. The kid who was possessed prior to the kid who was on trial seemed very insistent that the Warrens helped them, and other members of the family didn't seem to think that way at all - they remembered all of what happened, but they also had some other views about it as well.